Brian:

Culture would have Christians believe that we should check our faith at the door when dealing with politics. We commonly hear about the separation of church and state. But what does that really mean? Scott Cahill is joining us today from FinSec LIFE on Invested With Purpose to dive into the responsibility Christians carry in the public square and beyond. Invested With Purpose, making the most out of your time, talent, and treasure. Meet Christians from all walks of life and hear their incredible stories that will both motivate and challenge the way you view the world. These men and women exemplify Christian values and biblical stewardship in areas of mission, finance, entertainment, sports, and more.

Orlando:

Grace and peace you’re listening to Invested With Purpose, making the most out of our time, talent, and treasure. My name is Orlando.

Brian:

And I am Brian.

Orlando:

And today we have a guest with us, Scott Cahill, Jr. of FinSec LIFE. Scott, welcome to the show.

Scott:

Thank you, Orlando. Thank you, Brian. It’s good to be on the show.

Orlando:

Yes, it’s great to have you. So we really appreciate you joining us today. Before we get into anything specific, just generally speaking, would love to hear about your story how God has worked in your life and how you got to where you are today.

Scott:

Sure, sure, yeah. So I’d say I’m a third generation or fourth generation, grew up in the church and spent my life in the church, but wasn’t until I was age 15 when I made a decision for Christ and that’s when everything changed my life, changed schools, changed friends, changed everything as you get out of the social influences that you have when you’re growing up. And shortly thereafter, I think God was starting to show me the path and calling that He would have for my life. And it was always thinking business, which is where I am, but it was also interest in running for student government and being involved in government, different capacity. And so as I got into just kind of had this being drawn toward government, I was always wrestling with how the church was handling it. And it was always something where you felt like there’s this dichotomy of, okay, church here, government here, everything’s got to be separate.

We’ve got to be careful and you have all the phrases and some stuff that can seem trite right now where what are we doing right now? So it’s okay to be business in the church to talk about business, it’s okay to talk about education, it’s okay to talk about this, but government was always seemed to be the whole stepchild of this like let’s just separate this and put them aside. They’re not part of the inheritance. And so I said, “There just needs to be a better narrative through this.” And so I got myself kind of on this journey of wrestling through where do we need to be at this time? What do we need to understand and how do we need to communicate this in a way that’s understood within the church that gives people a biblical understanding? So I think people say, “Well, you’re getting political.”

I said, “Well, it’s being biblically responsible and that’s what we’re trying to understand right now.” So 2020 hit and that really gave me a lot of, opened my eyes to a lot of things and gave me an understanding of what’s really going on and what’s at play. And you started doing a lot of research and stuff, not taking the current narrative, not looking at what’s right in front of us and taking things at face value, but seeing how do we understand this? How do we engage? And some of the concepts and some of the understandings that were revealed to me is that if we as a church, church body choose to stay out of a certain area, how do we expect to see any element of righteousness in that area?

So if we don’t step into it, regardless of how dirty or how ugly it is, the only way that it does get cleaner, the only way that you start to see a place where people want to be a part of is by stepping into it and willing to work within that area and understanding what needs to be done in this time period.

And it’s just been incumbent on me as I’ve been finding a lot of guys running for office right now, the last two years, that have been like us. They’ve been guys that have been in the financial sector, they’ve been a teacher, they’ve been in missions field. I was just on the phone with a guy who was a missionary before he ran for office. And so it was like the dream of our founder, our founders, to see people from all walks of life to spend time in the civic sphere because they understand that there’s a purpose to it and then this is also something that they can do as they pass on to the next generation, what kind of legacy they want to leave. So I just see how you can bring this all together with that and being able to focus on, well, is it an issue on the left? Is it an issue on the right? I said, “Well, why don’t we just get to the scripture and see what it says and let that truth”-

Orlando:

Absolutely. I wrestle with that also as far as integrating politics within the church and church life and my Christian walk. And I realize that Jesus is Lord. Jesus Christ, being Lord of all things is a political statement in and of itself. One of the observations that I also see is extremes within human beings, we go to the extremes. There could be times where it’s too political where every Sunday is almost like a political rally and then it could go to the other side where we act as if politics don’t matter at all. Why do you believe or think in your observations, why is it so challenging to have some type of integration there or not even, as you said, not even to look at things as integrating, but to look at the scriptures and see how that plays out? Why is it so challenging?

Scott:

I believe it’s the day and age we’re in right now. I think there’s been, to be honest, a lack of preparation when it comes out of the seminaries in the past. And so it’s the old adage, I stay out of religion and politics. Well, in church it’s like we stay out of this right here, stay out of this one sector. We seed this sector to the territory of darkness toward the enemy. But I think it’s kind of like you touch a hot stove and so you stay away and you say something and you get burnt and you’re saying, “Oh, that didn’t work out too well, so we’re going to play it safe or we’re going to stay over here and we’re just not going to get into this.” And so I said, “Well, the legacy of that means that you’re going to find yourself backed into a corner where almost everything right now seems to be political.”

You’re thinking medical decisions are political, saving lives is political? And you start to really ask these questions, what’s really going on right now? And so I started to see, well, if you are wanting to shut down the church and minimize the influence of the church, you would certainly want them to stay out of certain things that you know you could speak life to. So when people look at certain issues and say, “Well, this is so controversial,” then we don’t want to talk about it. But when I study the Gospels and the book of Acts, one great example after example after example, the book of Acts is that Paul would go from city to city and he would have people from the prior city will come in and they would interrupt. They would come and stir up trouble. They will continue to make problems for wherever he went. And so if we brought that into modern-day context, I would argue that people will look at a guy like Paul and say, “Hey man, you’re too controversial. Can you just tone it down some? You’re just causing too many problems.”

I like Paul, I like what he says, but he just brings this controversy wherever he goes. And I started asking the question, I said, “Is that Paul’s problem or is there something at play that’s a power play that they’re saying, ‘We don’t want to lose our power, so we’re going to shut this guy down because it’s too powerful for what he’s saying.'” Well, thank God Paul didn’t listen to him. Paul stayed with his task at hand. You look at when Jesus would show up, there was always people asking questions, trying to put him on the spot, trying to say, they called him a glutton, they called John the Baptist he has a demon. Just because there’s accusations thrown at you, I think there’s an element right now we see the churches that we just want to stay clean of all this.

We don’t want to be the ones that are getting accused of. We’re trying to find that middle pathway to get through this. And I said, “Well, maybe it’s not the middle pathway that you’re looking for, but try the truthful pathway.” And sometimes when you get to criticize, you may be over target and the darker a culture gets, the colder a culture gets. The more you speak truth, the more you’re going to see controversy. So sometimes that doesn’t mean necessarily, I just made people mad, so therefore I’m doing it right. No, no, no. It’s you speak the truth as you know that God has revealed to you and you’re compelled to speak it. And then you see that someone’s coming after you and say, “Well, that means that it struck a nerve,” and that can open up a conversation for what we are doing right now.

And so a lot of things that I’ve stated over the last couple of years and someone says, “How do you believe that?” I said, “Well, I’ve done a lot of research. I’ve considered the evidence and I’m just speaking this right now because I believe it’s for your edification. If you find better information, please share it with me and tell me where I’m wrong.’ ‘Pretend I’m not telling you the truth.'” I said, “No, I believe you’re telling the truth.” I said, “No, just pretend that everything I’m saying is worth looking into and finding out. I’ll give you resources that I started with and you can start there and then just go somewhere else and find out what you need to do.” But I think that’s part of what we need to do for someone who’s going to be called to the government sector. There’s certain things that we’ve got to clarify and bring out and bring out into the open.

Brian:

Scott, it’s interesting we’re talking along these lines and there’s this popular saying in Christian dom, we always talk about you can’t legislate morality. And so a lot of people fall back on that. And I think that some of that, you can make cases for or against this, but I think sometimes you can use that as a crutch to say, “Well then I shouldn’t get involved or I shouldn’t do anything.” And yet then we look at some of the best things that have happened in the pro-life movement was through legislation and ultimately through appointments of Supreme Court justices and the overturning of Roe v. Wade. And now all of a sudden we’re trying to figure out, well really, are we pro-life? It got really messy again. So what are your thoughts on this whole legislation of morality?

Scott:

Well, Brian, I’m so glad you brought that up because I’ve had to deal with that and I’ve wrestled with that. And I think early on in my conversion, I believed that. But then there was just always something stirring in me when I tried to wrestle with it. And we know the law was a guide. We know the law can also change hearts. And I’ll point to an example, and this is, I read an article about two weeks ago, it was on the Christian Post, and it was a story of a young lady. She was in the Netherlands and she has been dealing with mental issues and she’s also had to deal with a small case of autism. And after several years of meeting with her counselor, the counselor says, “There’s nothing else I can do.” So the next step in this country was that, well, I think it’s just I’m going to go ahead and euthanize myself.

Brian:

Oh my goodness.

Scott:

And she described the story as I just sit on my couch, the doctor comes, my boyfriend sitting next to me and they just say, “Have a good journey or have a nice nap,” and then that’s it. How did this come about? It was a controversial law when it was passed. But then everyone just uses, they’re accepting of the law and then they just adapt to the law. And then they look at that law now as an out, we can just have this as our fallback if our life’s not turning out the way we want it to. So I don’t know, speaking of element of faith, how that plays into some of these people. But it was a great example, a sobering example, of somebody who’s saying, “Yes, we all disagreed with this 20 years ago when this was being passed, but what’s there now?” And now you start to see a culture shift, a culture not valuing life.

So I said, “Yes, you got to see the change of the heart,” but when you don’t have laws that honor God, you’re going to start to see people … Also, where there is no revelation, people cast off restraint. And so when you don’t see those laws as a guide, these people will also cast off restraint even inside the church as well. So I believe you got to have both of those. But I think that’s something that, like you said, Brian, that if we say that, what’s the motivation behind saying that? Is that for us because we just don’t want to step into it or we’re going to allow ourselves to wrestle with that through and say what’s the intent and purpose behind that? And find out where’s that message coming from?

And there are a lot of narratives inside the church I’m finding out that did not come from scripture, but I do believe it came from the enemy. And I say, “Guys, we’ve got to root these things out,” because some of the stuff comes from what we believe is wisdom, but it’s fear-based. And II Timothy 1:7 says that, “We are not given a spirit of fear.” So where did it come from?

Orlando:

All right. So the everyday layman, maybe someone who does not have as much resources or feel that they don’t have as many resources to make certain changes, what would a charge or some encouragement that you would have for that individual? Would it be just to vote? Locally obviously we know those are extremely important. A lot would argue even more so than what we see with the presidential elections. Any encouragement for the everyday person saying, “This sounds great. What do I do in my sphere of influence? I attend a church, I have morals looking at things through a biblical world view.” Any encouragement for them?

Scott:

Absolutely, yeah. And I would say most of the people I’m hanging out with may be as you described, Orlando.

Orlando:

Right.

Scott:

Because some of those are the ones that have the most energy, they have the most fervor. They’re not thinking about, “Okay, if I do this, I might lose this. If I do this, then this client may walk away.” And so they’re just looking at saying, “I just know that this is true and I’m going to speak that.” So I always start with everyone’s got a circle of influence. Everyone’s got people around them. And one of the things that I learned over the last two years I’ve worked with a lot of candidates is that some people say, “Well, what difference can you make?” I say, “Well, if you start with that perspective that you think you’ve got to have a wide range of influence to counteract what may be a billionaire who is trying to undercut everything that we’re doing and he can just spend money at will.”

But I’m thinking if you don’t stop and you continue on what you’re doing and you allow your voice to be heard, you speak on what’s truth and you allow yourself to enter in some of these conversations, you never know what God will use. Sometimes God just says, “Open your mouth or just step into this conversation, just have this conversation.” Things can happen over time. But God does not despise small beginnings and allow ourselves to move in that direction and just say, “You know what? I’m just going to be a good steward with the small things that He has entrusted to me.”

Orlando:

Absolutely.

Scott:

And then we know the parable of the meital, how that can change too quickly. So my encouragement is I think most people have a lot more influence than they realize.

Brian:

That’s very true.

Scott:

Always start, and if you’re questioning about it, I said, “Always start with just studying and just get into that quiet place. Open the word, understand what it says, what God’s speaking to you from this, and He may point to you one direction or the other and go visit this person or go study more on this. Go understand what’s going on. I want you to understand what’s happened to our people, what’s happened to our food supply, what’s happening to our medical industry. And then start to step and have some of these conversations,” because the fact is that if we don’t step into these conversations, it is not all sudden that everything’s going to be corrected. It’s going to take people who have a boldness and a courage coupled with what’s true and what’s right to step into these areas.

Orlando:

Absolutely.

Brian:

Scott, so you’ve been kind of focusing on pastors and what you’ve been doing here. I know there’s an event here, we are all in Orlando as an event coming up, you’re doing a luncheon for pastors and how has that been going as far as getting pastors involved in this kind of thing?

Scott:

Very good. And I would say God moves in certain seasons. And when you see an open window in ways that you can’t explain, people starting to show up. So far we’ve got more than we expected, double the number of what we’ve expected. So bringing in pastors and key influencers. But what’s been amazing is that when people see what’s going to be discussed and what this is about so many people are saying, “I want to be there, I want to be there.” And this is very unscientific, but my thought is there’s probably three types of people there. There’s some that are going to come in there with one eyebrow raised, some are going to come in there and say, “I want to do something, I just don’t know what to do yet.” And you got some other people that are doing stuff, but they’re saying, “I just need to find out who are the others that are out there.”

In a time when Elijah was calling out King Ahab and Queen Jezebel, he thought he was all alone until God says, “I got 7,000, haven’t bent their knee. Go find those 7,000.” And some people are looking for those 7,000 and saying that we are here together for this. So Saturday night I hosted an event where it’s a lot of candidates that were there and before I spoke, before I prayed is that I said, “Guys, there’s no agenda to this meeting. I just want you guys to get to know each other, to know that this is more than just you stepping in and then you just voting the right way.” There are battles after battle, after battle after battle that we get weary from and to know that we have to allocate our energy and resource in certain ways. But when you think that, “Well, what’s the likelihood of this succeeding?” And then you back off from it.

But when you have people around you pushing you, encouraging you, and [inaudible 00:18:36] each other, I said, “We’re all on the same page here. We all came together.” I didn’t ask them what their affiliation was. We all just started talking and we realized we’ve all just had this common understanding that I believe has been revealed in this time. So to answer your question about pastors, I believe that there’s a message and there’s a stirring for those who are listening and paying attention. And I grew up here in the city and I’m seeing churches and pastors that I’ve never, don’t know, never heard. And I’m so excited about this because these are new faces, new people. And I think coming out of this meeting is going to be a chance for people to realize that we’ve got a remnant of people that are willing to stand firm in this place and we’re willing to lock arms with each other and say for the children, for the next generation, do this for the nation, for the world. So I’m believing that God has a purpose for this nation as He does for any other nation.

Brian:

I think it is vitally important what you just said as far as putting them all in a room and letting them know they’re not alone. They must think I’m on an island here. I feel like I’m saying things that other people in Orlando aren’t doing or aren’t saying, but yet I see the decline that has happened over the years. I mean, I grew up here, so I’ve seen it with my own eyes as well. So it’s great to hear that you’re putting them together.

Orlando:

Yeah. And another thing that you mentioned that I thought was encouraging is just for the everyday person and their passion. We see in scripture all throughout the Bible that God is in the business of using these seemingly small things to glorify Himself. When it seems like people or an individual is counted out, whether it’s Moses with his stutter, not having the confidence, God is in the business of using that not for that individual’s glory, but to glorify Himself. And along that same vein, it’s vitally important for us to realize where our hope is found. So our hope isn’t in who is going to be President or all of those things. While we should be in tune with it and be aware, ultimately our hope is found in Christ and God and we know how the story’s going to end.

So that gives us a level of freedom to be passionate and know that things can change and that we’re not without hope. So yeah, those are just some thoughts I had as you were sharing this, Scott. And I wanted to switch gears a little bit. As I was looking at your bio here and some about you being managing director of FinSec, very big into business entrepreneurship. What are some ways that you incorporate your faith within that sphere? As you know here at Timothy Plan, we do biblically responsible investing. And as you know, things are so polarizing culturally. People are looking for opportunities like this to take a stand for what they believe in, if you would. But what are some of the ways you incorporate your faith and what you believe within your practice at FinSec or some of the business opportunities you’ve had?

Scott:

Yeah, sure. Well, thanks for that question. It’s working with insurance and what we do is we sell insurance and insurance and what we do is we sell insurance. And part of that is a strategy that goes with the life insurance product, sell them to a lot of businesses, a lot of businesses, small business, startups, family businesses. And there’s a heavy incorporation of faith in all of that. And so starting a business is an act of faith. And so to do it apart from scripture, I don’t know how they do it, but you’re stepping into scripture, you know what God’s speaking to you, and you’re carrying on the family tradition by passing the business on. So a lot of the strategies we use are teaching businesses how to keep the business inside the family, how to protect businesses once they get going. And it’s really providing resources for whether it’s a transition from one leader to another using insurance or whether it’s one transition from one generation to the next generation, allowing them to be able to retain their business.

It just gives them this airtight understanding of how they can safeguard a lot of what’s going on around them. So they may focus every day, 16 hours a day, longer than that oftentimes just working on their product, their craft, what they’re trying to do. But oftentimes they’re blindsided by a lot of other things that are going on. So it gives you a chance to say, “Yeah, I have a strategy. I have a product I can use to help you guys along the way in a way that you may not have considered before.” So because product and insurance is the commodity is the product, but you work in a way that you put a strategy together that they may not have even seen before.

So using trust and how to be able to use trust to pass on family businesses. But the faith part of it is certainly when people ask you and you get closer to these people, and this is what’s the great part about this is when they start having some conversations, with family and friends, “What’s going on?” I’ve had several of them say, “Scott, I know what you’re involved with and we got pile of cash. What do we do?”

Orlando:

Oh, wow.

Brian:

That’s a good problem.

Scott:

That’s a great question. But one I take very seriously. So I’ll be prayerfully consider what are some ways, and I said, “Anything I recommend is not something I’m not already doing and something I believe in and I want to understand better what you guys, what’s your focus is, what’s going on missions, ministry, care about the city, what is the stuff that you guys want to invest in?” And it gives a chance to ask those conversations. And I think I’ve already kind of come in knowing that yes, I do want to understand insurance, but they’ll look at me as this person that’s already involved in some of these areas just because of growing up here. And it’s just my reputation. So it opens it up for some of the other conversations they have and they feel comfortable talking about that. And I said, “Guys, I love it. I always,” to our conversations.

Brian:

It’s definitely something that I think a lot of Christians, I won’t say a lot of Christians, but some Christians will try to check the faith at the door. You have this, you compartmentalize things where this is my business, this is my church, this is my family. And none of this stuff crosses over. And yet as we’ve been discussing with politics and faith and everything else, it all crosses over. And if you’re not careful, you’ll end up siloing yourself into someplace where you don’t treat it seriously. And then we end up in the mess that we’re in. It’s like, “How did we get here? What is this cultural decline that just happened? I have no idea.” Going back to some of that, I grew up here and I remember in the ’90s we had, I was in an independent Baptist church, a small church, but we talked politics and Christianity, we talked voting.

They didn’t stand up there and say, “You must vote this or you must do that.” But we were well aware, I felt, of when I walked into my very first election when I turned 18, I felt like I was at least well-prepared that my church had said something about some things and my parents talked about it. And here we are now. And it feels like we’ve taken this step of separation of church and state to the extreme where we’ve taken that statement and we say, “Well, we must separate everything.” You want to talk about that a little bit too, because I think there’s a big misunderstanding about this separation of church and state?

Scott:

Sure, yeah. Well, separation of church and state, we know where that came from. Letter Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association, Danbury, Connecticut. And it was a conversation, they were saying that as a government, “Are you guys going to dictate how we’re going to live our lives in our church?” And there was reason for that because you’re talking about early 1700s, early 1800s, late 1700s, early 1800s, what the precedent was between church and government at the time. So now we just take it and we say, “No, we just want to make sure that there’s a silo between the two.”

And the fact is there’s never been a silo and there never will be a silo. And the reason why I’m saying that is because 2020, as I mentioned, was a time for me where just the scales fell off my eyes and I say, “Well, if the church is not going to influence the public policy and the government, the government’s going to tell the church what to do.” And so the same question that the Danbury Baptist Association had to Thomas Jefferson came to fruition by the same people that said separation church and state. And I said, “The same person who’s saying that right now is the same church that just bowed to a government edict. They gave up meeting together.” I said, “They looked at what they’re going mandate before you can sit in a pew, you’re going to sit here, you’re going to do this.”

And I fully understand health precautions. But I said, “Do you understand also what’s happening right now? You guys would not have done this without the government saying, ‘Yes, you can’t do this. Yes, you can’t do this, you cannot do this.'” It’s better for a bar or for a club to stay open, than a church to stay open. So that alone itself is enough example for you to say, “Maybe it’s something we need to look into. Maybe there’s something else at play here.” You can’t sing in church in some places. So fortunately in Florida we had a different story, but even in Florida we had sheriffs that were shutting down churches and fining churches for being open. Meeting inside church or meeting outside the parking lot, what are we going to do? So the reason why I say there is there’s never been a silo, there’s never been that way, is because you can’t artificially create something that’s going to say, “You guys are totally separated and you guys have no influence on each other.”

I said, “Well, there’s always going to be influence and you’re either going to be pushed in one direction or the other.” And it’s better for us to say, “Listen, do we want to listen to a government that’s not listening, not resting on scripture, or do we want a church and a pastor that’s going to be resting on scripture to tell you the truth about what’s going on right now?” And 2020 was this interesting time because I saw so many people that are thinking, “Where is, I’m discouraged, I’m depressed, I’m afraid, I’m angry.” Well, all of that, where can you go for that message? So I’m all alone. Well, you can turn on church and watch TV. I said, “Well, there’s an element where you got to be together with people. That’s what we’re made to do. You can’t change that either.” So giving up meeting together.

So yeah, so I believe, Brian, that it came to fruition a lot of ways in 2020 with that belief because I said, “The irony of someone saying that, yes, well, we’re just going to just separation church and state.” Then I said, “You’re working with the government right now to shut down your church.” So I said, “There is no separation right there. So reconsider what you’re saying, understand what that means and understand that our call to God is higher than the call to the government, and understand that when the government does something where it conflicts, when the law of man conflicts with the law of God, we’ve got decisions to make.”

And when we allow ourselves to step back far enough from the fray, we can find ourselves making decisions that are going to compromise our faith. And we’re going to stay and we’re get weaker and weaker. But when you say, “No, there’s clear conflict right here. It’s time for us to step in and have this conversation.” And I’ve had this conversation a lot recently. I said, “Do you believe when the law of man conflicts with the law of God, that there’s a point where you got to step in there and say, ‘I’m going to choose one over the other.'”? And essentially by not choosing, you are choosing one or the other.

Orlando:

That’s very true.

Scott:

When you actually choose and say, “I’m going to choose God over government,” then there is going to be controversy coming from that. And scripture is very clear that that will come.

Orlando:

Yeah. I can see the challenges or how it could be hard just thinking about politicians in a general sense, how they can be very deceiving or say they believe something when it’s convenient and then flip-flop when it’s not as convenient. But that doesn’t mean that we’re not to do anything as you mentioned. What’s some of the pushback that you get, whether it be from pastors or individuals? My assumption, Scott, for some would be, look, we are doing what we’re called to in this church preaching and teaching the word of God. And the hope would be that the members of the church and those in attendance would take that and apply those lenses to every aspect of their lives, politics and family, marriage, how they raise their children. They’re going to apply that biblical worldview. So they may not feel as if necessarily they always have to harp on certain bills that need to be passed or things like that. That’s just what I would think some pushback would be. But what’s some of the pushback that you’ve got? Does some have merit, some not? What are your thoughts on that?

Scott:

Yeah. Well, I would say that first it’s understanding the influence we have, separating that from getting alone with scripture. So I just use an example. I said, “If you just took the Bible regardless of translation, credible translation, and you just got alone and you ignored all influences and you just read it from cover to cover, cover to cover to cover to cover, cover to cover, would you come to the same conclusions that you’re coming to right now regardless of if it’s with faith, family, whatever it else is, or government or anything like that?” Because you see clearly, you see it throughout scripture where prophets speak into government leaders. You see Jesus talking to government leaders. So there’s a very core component government has a part in all this. And so I think it’s one is understand that there are some people who are set apart to run for office.

And if they’re set apart to run for office, what is our call for those that are saying, “Yeah, I want to support you. What should we be doing?” That’s a question I’m asking myself, I’m asking others. I’m saying, “We’re sending people to Tallahassee, DC, and local government as well.” And I said, “Guys, understand now when they leave and they go, we know who they are right now. We’re pretty sure of who they are right now.” And Orlando, to answer your first part of what you’re saying was that sometimes they may drift when they get there. And we know that’s true, that drift is very real. And so does that mean that person’s a bad person?

Well, I’m not going to debate that, but what I’m going to say is that how much could we have been a part of that to keep them from drifting? And so that’s what I’m doing right now when I talk about Saturday night, bringing these guys together in the same way we’re bringing pastors together to keep them from drifting too. So because the tendency is to go with the sway of the culture, the sway of where the world is going right now. So if we want to stand firm like Ephesians six against the torrent that’s coming our way, the only way to do that is being able to talk to others. They’re saying, “Yeah, you know what? This is what I’m seeing right now. This is what I’m understanding. This is what I’m hearing, and how can I encourage you and how can I push you along in your way?”

So I’m working on, just before I got on the call, one elected leader that’s in DC representing us, he’s taken a lot of flack for some of the stands he’s taken. And so I’m trying to get him connected to a ministry that’s located just outside DC where there’s no agenda. All they want to do is come, serve, pray, and just be a place of refuge for some of these leaders. And I say, “He needs that right now. Let’s get him that.” I don’t want to lose another one. So a good one that comes in there and finds that it’s a lot easier to go along with this opposed to saying, “You know what? That’s the reason why you see things keep going the direction it’s going until you start getting people that are going to come in there.”

And to your point earlier, it’s not a lot of people you take. I mean, I think God gave us the example of Gideon. When you see what happened with Gideon, He says, “No, 3,000 is too much. We get down to 300.” So you’re seeing that even he thought he was totally unqualified for that. But to the other question, Orlando, about some of the questions I get. I think a big part of this is talking past each other. When I start having people bring me a concern or they start making statements, they may not be asking a question, but they’re making a statement. And I said, “Well, let’s go back on that statement because I think you’re assuming you understand what I’m doing here, what my purpose is here and understanding what’s going on. But I believe it’s a lot deeper than you realize. If we can have that conversation, I’d like to share that with you.”

I had a lunch with, Saturday, with somebody about this, and he just said, “I never heard it explained this way.” I said, “Well, I think it’s only because it’s something that God can reveal. So it’s not something I’m going to get from a textbook. It’s not something I’m going to get from a latest bestsellers.” But what I’m trying to help you guys understand is that there’s a whole lot that we’re missing out on this right now. And when I hear someone say, “Church of politics, we just need focus on the kingdom of God and we just need to focus on evangelism.” I said yes to all of those. We’re all into that stuff.

So in fact, the church I go to is a heavy focus on evangelism. I mean, they share numbers each week of 50, 70, 80,000 people that they evangelize around the world because they’re connected to evangelistic ministry. And so those are big numbers there, but we’re also not afraid to step into dark areas because sometimes the darkest areas have the greatest chance for God to show His grace, His mercy, and the miracles in that area. So I like to make sure that if we’re talking past each other, I’ll say something and they’ll say something that’s totally different than what I’m saying, or the traditional straw man argument where I’m saying, “Wait a minute, you’re attacking what you think you’re projecting on me, but let’s break away from the straw man arguments. Let’s get to, I understand where you’re coming from, you understand where I’m coming from. It’s just the basic, this is where we’re coming to terms let’s reason together. Please tell me this is my understanding what I’m seeing right now. Please tell me where I’m wrong.”

And that has not been, no one’s been able to say, “Sorry, you’re totally off.” I said, “Well, okay. So if you see that what I’m saying is making sense and it’s resonating, I’m not saying you have to go walk out the door right now out of this lunch and go do something.” But I’m saying, “Would there be something that you could also participate in that you believe that you want to do? Because I feel like you’re kind of taking out, if you use the Kingdom of God argument, well, we know the kingdom of God is constantly expanding, constantly expanding, and I don’t think kingdom of God draws a fence around governmental realm and say we’re not going to get into that area.” So I believe we’re all called to go into these certain spheres. Someone goes to business, someone’s going to be a teacher, someone’s going to go into politics. What’s our role when it comes to that?

Brian:

Scott, you mentioned leaders, they get elected, they go into Tallahassee, excuse me, or they go up to D.C. or they go wherever. And then it’s like a sliding scale of morality. Things start to drift a little bit. And I think we saw no, at least in my opinion, no greater example than that then apparently, many on the more conservative side of the ledger felt like they were hiding behind Roe v. Wade until it was overturned. And then all of a sudden they’re like, “Well, now we need to talk about a compromise,” and this and that. Let’s talk about a couple number of weeks. And it’s like, “Okay, well how many weeks are we talking about? And so it’s okay in X amount of weeks that we’re just going to terminate a life? Okay, I thought we were pro-life here.” So yeah, we’ve seen that that shift happen very dramatically when the landscape moves. And so in changing a little bit, I wanted to ask you, so we’ve talked a lot about Orlando and central Florida and everything. Is there a national focus that you’re gearing towards at all in what you’re doing?

Scott:

Yes and no. I learned a lot. I worked with about 12 candidates in 2022, and they were all three levels, local, state, national. And I realized the higher you go up, the stakes are higher, the more money’s got to be involved and the intensity increases. And so you would think that, okay, I just got a smaller district for US Congress. I can just go out there and just take care of that district. And you realize how much stuff is already baked into the equation, how much stuff is in there, and who’s pulling this and who’s undercutting you. You think someone’s on your side, but you realize that they’re good talking to you in person, but they never return your phone calls. In fact, they undermine you. They just went with your opponent. So I saw all of that going on.

And so you get down to more local level. There is still the intensity of it very much so, but you don’t see it like you do when you get to the national level. So what I took away from that is that I’m all for … I mean, I got a guy that I’m starting to work with who’s running for US Congress again this year and showing that he’s a Colonel and he’s showing he’s very serious. He’s run several businesses and he says, “I don’t need this, but I’m willing to step in and put my money out there and do this.” And so I said, “Well, you got my attention, you got my support.” But as you get back to some of the local level stuff, I realize that if we take care of what’s in our backyard first, and we take care of what’s just down the street communities, strong neighborhoods, then strong cities, then we can start to build what I would think is a refuge and a fortress against the forces of darkness.

And so you would say that for the children to have a safe place to play, a place where people can walk safely after dark, those are some of the basic, basic, basic stuff that’s been lost. And I say if you start focus on some of those things, then you start to build this reputation and people start seeing the reputation of someone handling small stuff, then they can start working on making these things much larger. But I say that because that would be my primary focus, but I’m not neglecting anything that may come my way that says, “All right, we’ve got some guy now someone who’s got a lot of strength and someone who’s got the background, he’s got the stature to do it.” I said, “Well, let’s talk about it. Let’s do this.” But absolutely, these … I’m sorry.

Brian:

I say, as Orlando mentioned early on, these local elections, I mean, people don’t vote for these. This is like your vote counts three times because I mean, they are vitally important. These are the people that affect your everyday life. I mean to the level of what you can and can’t do in your own city, in your own home, much more than just the presidency. We all get wrapped up in the presidency and it’s very important. But yes, local politics are extremely important.

Scott:

And it’s hard at first. I get it. And that’s why I had to make my transition too, that when you see the glamour of the national politics, it just-

Orlando:

Yes.

Scott:

And then you may say, “Well, I’m concerned about some of these key issues, national issues.” And I said, “That’s good, that’s good. And it affects all of us too.” But I said, “Again, when someone says that I don’t have the resources, I may not have the influence,” I said, “Well, most people have some modicum of influence. I would say they have more influence than they realize. And you step in some areas and you realize what you can do, and sometimes you don’t realize until you open your mouth. Sometimes you don’t realize when you start working with people, what you’re gifted at and doing these things too.”

So I’d say if you just work on safeguard, I mean, one thing I learned through all this is that the power of sheriffs have in certain areas because they should be the final authority in a lot of the situations that are being dealt with when someone from the state or national government comes into the area. But the original tenet with the sheriff was supposed to be the one where the buck stops with him or her in this certain area. If we restore the purpose of the sheriffs in the area, you may not see some of the stuff that enters into Orange County or Seminole County or Lake County or Osceola County, which is just where we are right here.

But you have to see the power of a sheriff that knows how to stand firm in this, you realize, oh, that’s possible.

Orlando:

Absolutely. Well, you mentioned, Scott, as we wrap up here, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share some of the other things you’re working on. I know that the pastor’s event that you have this coming week, anything else that you have going on that you want to encourage others to look into and maybe even attend?

Scott:

Yeah, sure. As I mentioned earlier how my church is getting involved with evangelism, but I’ve also been working with them on a lot of projects of putting together events that educate and get people involved with the governmental sphere. So one event that we have coming up, and we haven’t put a date down yet, but anyone who’s interested who likes audio or reading books, one that I have a high regard for is a guy named Eric Metaxas, and he’s one that is Ivy League educated, but he’s one that’s, I think just in recent time, he’s just gone deeper in his faith and you start to see a profound boldness coming out of him. He wrote a book called Letter to the American Church, and it was published a year ago. And the short story on that is that he wrote the biography on Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

Orlando:

Yes, yeah.