Episode 14: The Mission of “The Chosen” with Stan Jantz

Brian (02:40): 

Welcome to Invested with Purpose Making the most out of our Time, talent and Treasure. I’m Brian. And I’m Nathan. And today’s guest is Making a Difference for the Kingdom of God by ensuring the gospel reaches 1 billion people through the popular television series, the Chosen, we proudly introduce Stan Jantz, CEO of the Come and See Foundation. Welcome Sandra, thank you for joining us on Invested With Purpose. 

Stan Jantz (03:23): 

Thank you Brian. It’s great to be with you. It is joyful to be here. 

Brian (03:27): 

I was reading your bio earlier and it’s so impressive and I love this ambition of reaching a billion people. We’ll talk about that I’m sure. But can you first start by telling us a little bit about your background and how you became involved with the Come and See Foundation and some of the books that you’ve written. I know you’ve sold millions of copies of those as well and anything you might be currently writing. 

Stan Jantz (03:49): 

Thank you. Yeah, I grew up around Christian books. In fact, I was raised by a set of bible commentaries I think. So my parents owned a Christian bookstore, remember those? Oh wow. 

Brian (03:58): 

I remember the Christian bookstores. I remember Zondervans and there were several. Yeah. But I remember going to ’em because that was where my parents would let me buy CDs. 

Stan Jantz (04:07): 

I grew up in that. My parents owned it and then later I took it over and managed it and owned it till the late nineties. We sold them and I got involved in writing books and did that with a writing partner, Bruce Bickel over the next 10, 15 years and then got involved in publishing. So I’ve really been around books and publishing my whole life. I love books. I love the process. What it does. Of course the book is the Bible and I always say God is the bestselling author of all time. 

Brian (04:34): 

That’s right. That’s for sure. 

Stan Jantz (04:35): 

We always enjoyed in our stores was just introducing people to the Bible and new versions of scripture. Then I got involved a little bit with the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association, which is a trade group representing publishers worldwide. So I really got a picture of the global impact that literature is having around the world. Of course, even then the idea of Bibles and books being translated was so critical because we in the West think that we have the monopoly on Christianity. Well, the truth is the majority of Christians live outside the west, live outside of the United States of North America and Europe and they live in now called the majority world, which will be Latin America, Africa, and Asia. And so I just realized then how important it was for publishing to be able to go to those places, but not just with our American books, but also with those that are done in the context of what that culture is all about. So when I had a chance then to join, come and see the foundation that’s working to support the Chosen, it was remarkable. And I got to tell you guys, I grew up, as I said, around Christian books, Christian Media, and I wasn’t a fan of Christian media, lemme put it that way. It’s like, okay, it’s good enough. It gets the message of the gospel out. There were a few bright spots, veggie Tales, and that came out. 

(06:01): 

I said, oh, that’s creative invented. But for the most part I was not a fan. And so when someone suggested about two years ago that I watched this new TV series that chosen, I resisted, I did download the app ago and what impressed me was the number of views that the chosen had. This was in the middle of season, probably season three at that time or even maybe season two. And I again didn’t watch it, but I was impressed and within about two weeks I was invited to an event at Biola University, which is a college in the southern California area. I serve as a trustee for that university and they had a special chosen event. So I attended and saw episode one of season one and I completely changed all my perceptions of what I thought it might be. It was a quality program with deep character resonance. 

(06:58): 

And of course in that first episode for you and your fans, Jesus doesn’t come till the last five minutes. He comes with such tenderness and he speaks to Mary or Lilith as she’s known to that point who has been just struggling. She’s possesses the scriptures tell us by seven demons and she’s been reciting this prophecy through her when she was a girl and kind of giving up and he calls her by name Mary and she’s just stunned what’s going on here? And she drops the drink that she was holding, turns around, he says, I have redeemed, you are mine. I’ve called you by name and it just melts. And he just embraces and she’s healed at that moment. So that’s when I was just, I was okay, I’m in. But I just became this evangelist for the chosen, just telling people about it. And two months later I was contacted by a gentleman, Mark Green from Green Family and said, we are working with the chosen. 

(07:53): 

In fact, he flew out actually before he even said anything about what it was, and we sat for lunch and I just started gushing about the chosen, didn’t even give him a chance to talk. And I took a breath and he said, well, that’s what I’m here to talk to you about. We want to raise up this nonprofit to support the chosen to support the production, the translation and distribution so that a billion people can experience the authentic Jesus. And guys I was all in. That’s amazing. That was about two years ago when that occurred and we set up the nonprofit about 18 months ago and it’s been a wonderful, wonderful experience and we’re just getting started. Exciting. Yeah, 

Brian (08:34): 

That’s quite the journey. I love that you mentioned about the quality of Christian films and things and it’s come so far from when I was a kid. I remember watching Jesus of Nazareth, the series when I was younger and my parents had me watching that when I was a kid. And of course you can go back to the Charleston Heston movies and some of those which are interesting as well. But yeah, there was always this thought in the industry that, well, it’s a Christian movie that means it’s in inferior products immediately. And even as a Christian myself, I’ve grown up a Christian, I had that mindset too like, okay, well I’ll set my expectations as to what I’m about ready to see. And I know it’s not going to be some Avengers movie that’ll be highly produced and well done. It’s going to be a secondary product that preaches to the choir maybe or something. And I like how you pointed out how the chosen kind of elevated that and it’s really made a difference. 

Nathan (09:25): 

Absolutely, absolutely. Stan, can you walk us through the process of producing the series? What challenges that you may have faced and how you’ve overcome them? 

Stan Jantz (09:35): 

Well, that’s a great question and it really starts with an idea that was birthed in Dallas Jenkins who is the originator of the series. He’s the director and also a co-writer. And you probably know the story, but he had his aspirations to be a Hollywood director and had a movie called The Resurrection of Gavin Stone, which I think is really ironic, 

Nathan (09:59): 

Right? 

Stan Jantz (10:00): 

That movie bombed and it just set him. And Dallas has been very transparent about his experience, really set him back. And he wondered even for the Lord, should I even do this? Should I be a filmmaker? His church in Chicago, harvest Church, he had done a few little films they would use for different occasions and they asked him, would you do a Christmas movie for us that we can show? And so they used a member’s pastor and went out and made a movie called The Shepherd. And you’ve seen that it’s a little 20 minute, maybe 30 minute film about this shepherd who’s lame. And he gets this kind of shunned by his fellow shepherds and ends up being the one who is the first one to go see Marian Joseph in the major and will hold Jesus in his arms. And so just a tender, beautiful movie. 

(10:49): 

And it had that personal touch we now see in the chosen. And Darryl Eves, who was one of the co-founders, came to him and said, Hey, I think we kept seeing this. We could do a series on about Jesus, about the life of Jesus chosen. And so that became the genesis of what became the chosen. And of course the first season was crowdfunded and one of the most successful, if not the most successful for an entertainment piece in history. And then the next few seasons were pay it forward. And they really came Dallas and the people involved in the production said there wasn’t enough there to keep the series at the high level. They were used to 

(11:29): 

Where he and Mark Green got together again, it was a God moment and to be together and just said, let’s form this nonprofit and give people a chance to be a part of the experience to be a part of investing in this Kingdom project. And so Cum and See was born. And so we took on season four starting there, and then of course it’s going to go all the way through season seven over the next few years. And our job is threefold, the foundation, and that is that we are paying for production completely all the way through. And as you go to keep quality, as you guys know, it takes investment. It 

Brian (12:07): 

Does, 

Stan Jantz (12:07): 

Right? It’s expensive. And so we are there, but you see the results in the screen and then the second what we call these pillars versus production, the second is translation. And if you’re going to reach a billion people, and that actually came from Dallas people. And so it wasn’t something that we kind of added that was his vision. So we took that on what to reach a billion people with a series like this means it’ll have to be translated. And what’s interesting, the most of a television series that had been translated was about, I think it was about 45, 46 languages. And guess what TV series it was? It was Baywatch that was 

Brian (12:45): 

Old hassle off. 

Stan Jantz (12:48): 

That was the one that held the record. And so we were able to actually go past that here in the last few months, which is kind of a big achievement. But more importantly, the reason for that is that our commercial level, it just isn’t viable for a studio or distributor to go beyond those first 30 40 languages. Our people doesn’t make economic sense. And so we knew that for us to go in and people ask, well why 600 and 600 really represents 95% of the world will be able to understand one of those 600 languages 

(13:23): 

And many more layers. I think 6,000 what’s called heart languages. And there’s a movement as you know, every tribe, every nation which is the green family involved with that, that aspires to have every language have a portion, at least the New Testament and 95% have a Bible in their heart language. But people understand, as we see in the Olympics, all the nations that are there, they have understand the understanding or they’ll understand French even though that’s not their first language. And so that’s our goal. And of course the vast majority of that group will be able to have it in the language that they grew up with. And that’s a process because you’re talking about dubbing, 

Brian (14:04): 

Right? That was the question I was going to ask the dubbing versus subtitles, because you have dubbing where you can put it into someone’s language and they hear a disciple or Mary speak the words in their own dialect, I’m assuming. So you’re not just getting me trying to speak Spanish to dub it, you’re getting someone from that country that can speak. Is it almost like a whole new production? You’re just kind of almost doing it over again? 

Stan Jantz (14:31): 

Completely. Yes. I mean the visual is done and the actors have spoken in pieces, but yes, it’s an art form and we are blessed to have one of the major talents of the world in film dubbing. His name is Rick Dempsey and worked for Disney for 35 years. And it was just again, a god moment that he was ready to retire from that role. He started in his early twenties and to join us at Come and see. And so he directs our dubbing and it is a very, very artistic process. So the first step is finding those actors that can then embody both the voice because you want to have a match to what that actor has done so that void and then to be able to do the language so that it fits the mouth, right? 

Brian (15:17): 

We’ve all seen those old, the movies, the Asian movies where the mouse moving a hundred miles an hour and towards come out. Yeah, it doesn’t work. 

Stan Jantz (15:27): 

So that is the art form, but here’s something else that is really important in translation. It’s been an education for me, it’s called localization. So in other words, and you kind of alluded to there, Brian, that you have to be able to then, whether it’s an idiom or a word, how it’s translated, it has the same meaning in that other language that it does in the original language so that the person then hearing it will not be confused. They use that word. That’s kind of weird 

(15:56): 

For each language. We have subject matter experts, and these are pastors or theologians. Because of the nature of the show, we want to make sure that the theology and the history of the context of Jewish history and how the church and all of that, of course the church was later, but in the time that Jesus was on the Earth, that is correctly translated and then the dubbing can be done and subtitles as well. So our goal is a hundred languages dubbed and then subtitle. But here’s what’s interesting is that when we get to languages that are probably 200, 300 in terms of the order that we’re going for, a lot of people that speak those more obscure languages are not literate because 

Brian (16:49): 

I was thinking that same thing they probably can’t read. Yes. 

Stan Jantz (16:52): 

So the dubbing may extend farther than what you have anticipated, but for now, and you can actually go to the app, the chosen app I 

Brian (17:01): 

Did, and I was scrolling through all the languages that you have it dubbed in. It’s incredible. 

Stan Jantz (17:04): 

You can choose, and I think for season four rupture about 40 languages. And for seasons one through three, I think it’s over 50 that you can just select from a menu and then there it is. There’s the show seasons one through three, I said about 50 plus languages. Season four, we’re up to about 45 right now working on others. And again, so we have a ways to go to 600, but these are incredibly large language groups because you’ve got Hindi, Mandarin and Russian and Portuguese and Spanish and all of that. But it’s, for me, it’s kind of fun to go sometimes watch how that language is portrayed in thinking about people who are experiencing the chosen and really this beautiful story of Jesus and his chosen followers in their language. 

Brian (17:48): 

So 

Nathan (17:49): 

Stan, I have a question. What was behind the decision to stream versus be in movie theaters? 

Stan Jantz (17:57): 

That goes to pillar three. I’m glad you said that. So 

Brian (18:00): 

Yeah, I was curious and I had a feeling I might know the answer, but I want to hear you. 

Stan Jantz (18:05): 

Production can make sure the seasons can be completed. And then translation, the third pillar is free for all. We want to make sure that it can be distributed throughout the world and kept free. That was a value that Dallas Jenkins had at the beginning. He said the billion people keep it free. And so the streaming really is tied to the app. So the app is really where people can then, regardless of where they live, and this applies not just to smartphones, but feature phones. In other words, there are places in the world that may not have an iOS or an Android smartphone, but they’ve got what’s called a feature phone they can download and get content and be able to watch it in their language. So we’re really tuned into that technology and we’re so desirous that again, that it’s accessible I guess maybe for that. And we are blessed to be able to really partner with some just top quality international ministries. I’ll give you a quick example. You version, 

Brian (19:09): 

We all know that 

Stan Jantz (19:11): 

And downloaded on more than 500 million devices and hundreds and hundreds of languages are available of the scripture. And here’s the thing, if our greatest at come and see greatest desire is that when people watch the Chosen, they are then motivated to go to scripture. The show is just a show. It doesn’t claim to be anything else. It’s not the Bible. It is taken from the Bible, the stories and of course the characters and the words of Jesus and when he’s speaking scripture are accurate from scripture. But beyond that, it’s just a show. So we depend upon ministries that would take this then like you version or One Hope or Bible project or Alpha, right? These Prison Fellowship to then take this and again in languages, but take it to that application. I’ll give you a quick story crew, which of course is on college campuses in the US and the world. 

(20:09): 

They’ve been doing a test since the spring where they will invite students, they call ’em watch parties, they say, come in, we’re going to show a film. They don’t tell ’em what it is, we’ll feed you. And then they start showing the chosen, they’ll do it over a period of eight weeks. Oh wow. At the end of each session they have crew staff, some are students, some our staff who will then kind of lead a discussion, what did you think this? And just kind of give them a chance to talk about it. What did they experience through that? They’ve been very, very pleased with the results and in many cases surprised with, by the way, these are secular campuses, NYU, and I’ll give you a quick story, Cal, which is up in California here at Cal Berkeley. There was a Chinese student, Chinese National who was a student there at Cal. She became involved in this watch party, did it for eight weeks at the conclusion. And again, with these discussions and really helping her help answer questions, that kind of thing, she accepted Christ into her heart and she Wow, that’s awesome. Told us. And she says, when I started watching, Jesus to me was a fairytale. He wasn’t real 

Brian (21:17): 

Interesting. 

Stan Jantz (21:18): 

I realized he’s a real person and I need to commit my life to him. So that kind of thing we’re just seeing happening and it’s encouraged crew then to take this on an international scale. And again, the translation enables people then students in other campuses and other languages to be able to watch it. So we’re seeing this kind of thing in other settings as well, including prisons, which is a remarkable story in itself has been involved with, 

Brian (21:45): 

Well Stan, I like how you point out that the Chosen is a show and it’s a good show, but it is just a show. Whereas you want people to go to the scripture to find out what God and Jesus and his ministry was all about here on earth. And the partnership with the Bible app is really neat. But I did want to ask, obviously with creative interpretations, you might get some pushback from the Christian community and what kind of, I guess what kind of pushback, if any, have you received in this area when you’re dealing with such a sensitive subject like this? 

Stan Jantz (22:26): 

It is interesting. What the show does is that it is based in the writers. I know them well. Ryan Swanson, Tyler Thompson, of course Dallas is a writer. They are so desirous, they research so carefully. They not just from scripture, but they depend on the Holy Spirit to give them the kind of storyline. Now the story’s there, but how do you pull out and develop these characters? And that’s the thing I think that makes the chosen relatable are the characters cells in these followers, these chosen followers, these disciples, and see the quirks and the foibles and the doubts that they have and seasons progress. We’re going to see that even more. And we know from scripture that even in the upper room, they wonder what’s going on here? They just didn’t get it. It’s almost like, what aren’t you seeing this? Well, as we see the characters then in the chosen go through, we kind of say, okay, that helps us identify. 

(23:21): 

So to the point of when it’s not in scripture, and an example, one of the most watched in terms of views scenes is in season three where Jesus has a conversation with Little James about healing. And it’s just one of those that just has such relevance to people. And just for your listeners or to set a So Jesus, and this is again right from scripture. He’s in a room and he’s sending out the disciples two by two, and they’re going to go to witness and testify. They’re going to cast out demons and heal people and they’re to take nothing with them. And you go right to scripture and even the pairings are there in scripture. So that’s what this scene is. So that scene is all like, yeah, that’s like word for word from scripture except reactions. I love it. There’s one disciple goes, so we can’t even take a second tunic. 

(24:17): 

No, just one. And so he’s got this look in his face like, wow, that’s not easy. Well, there’s that humanity that comes through that who among us would not ask the same question. I mean, I’ve got to go with that guy. And Matthew wasn’t quite the accepted guy yet at this point in the season. So anyway, the conclusion, they’re walking out of the room ready, get on their way, and little James, and if you go back and rewatch some of those, he’s got a staff and he’s got a bit of a limp. And even there’s a scene earlier in the series where someone asks him, have you thought about asking the master to heal you? And he bother him, I don’t want. So get that there’s kind of a setup coming. So in the scene they’re walking out and little James says to Jesus, rabbi may have a word. 

(25:06): 

He says, sure, little James, what is it? He says, you’ve asked us to cast out demons to heal others. Why haven’t you healed me? Well, is that not the question for so many people? For Christian, one had a loved one, I have my daughter, something’s happening here in, and yes, God does heal. Yes, Jesus, that’s what he did when he was on earth. But not always. We don’t know that he healed everybody. We probably assume that he didn’t. We see in our own life and experience. And so the dialogue is not from scripture that takes place, that’s seen scripture, but the principles, the theology is drawn from what we know is the work of God in the world when it comes to healing. And the last line is kind of the telling one where he says, little James, just think how effective someone like you will be healing others and wiping the tears. And he says, oh, and by the way, little James, you will be healed. It’s just a matter of time. I mean people, if you’ve ever seen, there’s some interviews that have been done. Nick Ic, who is the yes, know him well, he watched it and Dallas interviewed him. You can go to YouTube and see it. And Nick, who’s Australian lives in California here, but he’s Australian, he says, I was moved. 

(26:27): 

And Johnny Erickson taught us same thing. She watched it and she said, tears just came to our eyes. So people who have been in those positions, like those two examples, who are wonderful, wonderful evangelists for the scriptures and for Jesus understand that. And I think for us it’s helped. And that has been a huge help to so many people. So I guess that’s a long answer to say they want to make sure the writers, that it’s plausible, it’s possible that this could have happened or it’s plausible that Eden, Simon Peter’s wife had a miscarriage. And how many people have been helped by that kind of storyline that took place, that gave Peter some reason to say, master, I know that you’re powerful, you’re the Messiah, but are you good? I mean, that’s my interpretation of it. And again, how much have we asked about of God, we know you’re a God, we know that you love us. 

(27:18): 

And there’s in Factus, Lewis wrote in Narnia, and they come up to ask about Aslan and to say, is he good? And the answer is, yes, he isn’t, but he’s not safe, right? It’s like that just so we’re just really just to see how it is relatable so that we can relate to what’s happening. And the humanity of the followers and especially of Jesus is what’s just touching people so deeply that he’s not just a symbol, he’s not an icon, he’s not an object to be studied. He is a person who loves us and who wants us to be invested in him and to be a part of what he’s doing in the world. And so I think that’s what’s coming through, and we’re finding people of all faith traditions that are responding because of that, especially the Catholic viewers just, we just are so, so grateful that there’s a huge just response because again, that humanity that’s coming through, 

Nathan (28:21): 

Right. Stan, for our listeners who are inspired by your work, how can they get involved or support the foundation? 

Stan Jantz (28:29): 

Thank you. That’s a great question. Of course. Come and see. Dot net is our address and we have, you can go under get involved. And here’s the number one thing I can ask of your viewers and listeners is to pray. And we establish what we call the prayer crew. And it takes nothing to sign up for it. And all you’ll get are updates on things that you can be praying for. And we have had over 120,000 people sign up for that. 

Nathan (28:55): 

Oh wow. That’s amazing. 

Stan Jantz (28:57): 

We’re so blessed by it and it’s making a difference. Prayer is what’s making a difference. The enemy does not like the show anything, Jesus. And so we need to pray against that. But more importantly that the people that need to hear this and experience Jesus through this show will be able to do so and to then begin a journey because it’s one thing to meet Jesus. It’s another thing to follow him. We feel this catalyst, if you will. The show is a catalyst both for evangelism, for people to meet Jesus, to receive him, but also to follow him, which is where discipleship comes in. So you can go there and there to sign up for the prayer crew. Of course, there’s a place for people want to give. We talk about the Loaves and Fishes, which is a chosen theme. 

(29:46): 

We’ll get $10 donations, and we get those that are much bigger and they all matter. And God uses each one and the stories that come through, both for people who have given, but also those of course who have been praying and what’s happening in their lives. So just by going, getting involved both as part of our prayer crew, we would love it. People sign up for that. And you’ll get information and just what we call prayer crew newsletter, which is just again, just what you can be praying for. And of course, all the other features that are on the app such as the Theological, the Biblical round table, which I really to talk about the shows and answer the questions really that you’ve been posing. That is what do we do with that scene? Or what about talking about investigating why this is plausible and why it’s effective in terms of people experiencing who Jesus is. 

Brian (30:41): 

That’s awesome. Well, Stan, I wanted to ask one more particular question along the line of challenges. And I’ve grown up a Christian my whole life, so I have a lot of experience in biblical study, but that doesn’t qualify me for anything more than just the fact that I’ve learned a lot as I go. And our views evolve over time as far as you study the scriptures and you find things that hit you every time you read the scriptures. And so I know that there are some in the Christian community that view the second commandment in particular of images of God or Jesus as problematic. And how would you respond to something like that in particular with something like this in the chosen? 

Stan Jantz (31:28): 

I’m going to give an answer that Ed Stetzer gave. Ed Stetzer is a dean of Talbot Seminary at Biola, but also he’s everywhere. He ran the Billy Graham Center, and I was on a show like this and a listener asked that exact question. 

Brian (31:41): 

I bet, yeah. 

Stan Jantz (31:42): 

Yeah. And so Ed, who is, he’s got two PhDs, a missiologist. He says, you know what? I would never want to tell something if that’s their conviction. I would never want to tell somebody. You should not follow your heart in that. But the truth is that through the history of the church, visual representations have actually been a part of what the church has done. And I know Reformation was a response to Excessiveness. Absolutely. 

(32:09): 

And setting up just these things to be a way to bring money into the church and all that, and the idolatry of what was happening. But he said, but images have been important. And the fact is, and here’s interesting, we’re seeing, there’s a phenomenon that’s happening in the Arab world, especially in Iran, where Jesus comes to people in dreams. I know you’re probably aware of it. It’s document. And we’re seeing a response in the Arab world that is pretty remarkable where people are able to see what they’ve only experienced in their mind because it’s been there. And the same thing is true. I mentioned in Catholic, and I’ve talked to many Catholic priests and those that are in positions where they’re in authority. And I say, what is it about the chosen that draws people in really well? It’s being able to experience and visualize the human Jesus. And again, there are others that say, well, I don’t want to have Jonathan Rumi. Jonathan is the actor who plays in my head when I pray. And we get that. But I grew up, I told you guys, I grew up in a Christian bookstore environment. They were these really kind of funny paintings of, 

Brian (33:19): 

Oh goodness, man. I mean, I grew up in, I think every other household I went into for friends of church, had a picture of white Jesus up on the wall. And I’m like, even at a young age, I was like, is he white? And that leads into the other thing. I love that the Chosen has taken care and getting actors that are not just a whole bunch of white guys. It’s actually trying to be representative of the area, the Middle East where they are. So that’s incredible. 

Stan Jantz (33:51): 

Yeah, they’ve been careful and to include women in the show, and we know women were a part of the story. But again, to go back, if that’s troublesome to people, we are not going to push it. It’s not. But we’re seeing it helping so many people. And again, God has created us as we’re visual creatures, and even we have a version of the chosen for the Blind where it’s a narrated version.